Why no wipes, what is being done instead



  • Hi everyone,

    there has been a lot of discussion recently about a certain group of players resorting to all techniques, including ghost scouts, to systematically kill newcomers and drive them away from the game. There have also been some allegations that we "don't care" about this problem. To make everyone understand what has been done and will be done to address this issue, I'm opening a discussion thread with a detailed plan on how we are going to tackle this problem.


    -- WHY WE ARE NOT WIPING --

    The solution to the problem is apparently easy: wipe the server, this guild has no more advantage, the game is fair again. That would undoubtedly work. But I'd like to ask you a question:

    For how long would it work?

    There is no such a thing as a "legacy item" on the Classic server. What some players have now, every new player can get in due time. How long before this guild (or someone else) is geared up again exactly as now and starts doing this again? How long before the new players who will come after start complaining again for the same reason? And then, what do we do - another wipe? A wipe every couple months?

    Linkrealms is not like some other new Steam pseudo-MMOs. It's an old school game with a long term progression that doesn't match with server wipes every couple months.


    -- WHAT WE HAVE DONE / ARE DOING --

    We want to provide a permanent solution to this problem, something that will fix the issue for good, not for a few weeks only. Here is what has been done and what is coming next.


    IMPLEMENTED - New Player Protection. We have introduced a system that grants a good degree of protection to new players without allowing for exploits.

    • A player with less than 90 levels in all of some selected primary skills (or less than 500 skill levels in total) is flagged as New.
    • A New player cannot be attacked by anyone as long as he is in the Legal area, unless he turns into a Criminal. Outside of the Legal area, he enjoys no special protection.
    • The Legal area comprised the whole Oak Forest, that is, the green area around Riverbank.

    IMPLEMENTED - Ghost Scouting. We have taken actions against the tactic of leaving ghosts in dungeons to spy on incoming players.

    • All dungeon realms and world realms right around dungeon entrances are flagged as astral-guarded.
    • A dead character who has been in an astral-guarded area for more than 5 minutes after his corpse has disappeared is forcefully teleported back to the center of Riverbank.
    • Trying to elude this rule by zoning in and out of astral-guarded areas with the sole intent of scouting is punished by Game Masters.

    Criminal System. We have decided to simplify the planned Criminal System. In bullet points:

    • Attacking and killing innocent players who didn't attack first will make the killer lose Reputation. A character with too low Reputation will be flagged as Assassin.
    • The Assassin status is associated to penalties on deaths, which are bigger the lower the Reputation of the Assassin is.
    • Performing an illegal action (e.g. looting a corpse without loot right) will make a character temporarily flagged as Criminal. A Criminal character can be attacked and killed without the attacker losing Reputation.
    • Killing an innocent player in the Legal area will lead to a higher reputation loss for the attacker.

    Please let us know what you think about this. Every feedback is appreciated, and thank you for bearing with us through this hard new players time. I hope you will consider updating your Steam reviews once all of this has been implemented!


  • FOUNDER: DUKE

    Thank you Prometheus. I didn't mean to cause fireworks, but Holya's been a jerk, and flaunting it in our faces pushed me over the edge. Also, someone told me these penalties might be as far as taking 3 bless charges on death.. Perhaps if they get that red, maybe completely lose bless protected items? "your obviously mass-murdering people, these people are probably noobs, so you now risk all of your gear." type of penalty. Just something to consider.

    Perhaps also a setting where, theres orange, and then red. And if your "red" one of the most despised or moderately despised, you aren't allowed to enter town at all without being attacked by very strong guard npcs, or instantly killed by guard npcs that are designed to further punish players and keep them out of town until their criminal level is down. No safe zones for them other than their realm.


  • FOUNDER: SETTLER

    Wipes are not needed. The criminal system will be fair and just for all players. I urge the other Steam players to change their Steam review because there is always a solution to a problem. Giving a negative review will not help at all.



  • Sweet Baby Jesus!! Thank you Prometheus!!! For Keeping it :100: !!!



  • If he's killing everyone he sees anyways, I don't see how getting marked as an assassin is going to be a deterrent.



  • @Roundwaters said in Why no wipes, what we are doing instead:

    If he's killing everyone he sees anyways, I don't see how getting marked as an assassin is going to be a deterrent.

    You have a point...



  • If the game was full loot, "blues" could set up a trap for him and steal his god like items.



  • I think these ideas are progressive and great. Thanks for keeping us posted. Thank you for maintaining your beliefs about not selling out to making the game "easier" while still making the game challenging and enjoyable.


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    I still think that wipe is a necessity when the game goes live. New players won't care if it is easy to level up your skills, they won't if some guilds will more or less get to the point where they are at the moment a lot sooner than new players. All they will care will be starting from an even point.
    Even though I find what you are saying quite promising still I believe you are missing out the big picture from the marketing point of view. Basically you can’t go around saying “Hey new player, this is the reason you should be fine with no wipe”. Players won’t buy that, all they care will be not starting from the same start line.
    The biggest problem this game can suffer is the lack of players, once it is deserted to no coming back. Hear what I say and think about it.



  • @Chipli said in Why no wipes, what we are doing instead:

    I still think that wipe is a necessity when the game goes live. New players won't care if it is easy to level up your skills, they won't if some guilds will more or less get to the point where they are at the moment a lot sooner than new players. All they will care will be starting from an even point.
    Even though I find what you are saying quite promising still I believe you are missing out the big picture from the marketing point of view. Basically you can’t go around saying “Hey new player, this is the reason you should be fine with no wipe”. Players won’t buy that, all they care will be not starting from the same start line.
    The biggest problem this game can suffer is the lack of players, once it is deserted to no coming back. Hear what I say and think about it.

    When the game goes to its final release, if the population is large enough, we will surely open a fresh game server!


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    @Prometheus said in Why no wipes, what we are doing instead:

    @Chipli said in Why no wipes, what we are doing instead:

    I still think that wipe is a necessity when the game goes live. New players won't care if it is easy to level up your skills, they won't if some guilds will more or less get to the point where they are at the moment a lot sooner than new players. All they will care will be starting from an even point.
    Even though I find what you are saying quite promising still I believe you are missing out the big picture from the marketing point of view. Basically you can’t go around saying “Hey new player, this is the reason you should be fine with no wipe”. Players won’t buy that, all they care will be not starting from the same start line.
    The biggest problem this game can suffer is the lack of players, once it is deserted to no coming back. Hear what I say and think about it.

    When the game goes to its final release, if the population is large enough, we will surely open a fresh game server!
    Exactly, but the problem is having that many players at the start. I am saying that we will be able to attract more players if you announce a fresh start. Of course the decision is yours and I respect that. I just want this game to last long and the comments about “no wipe” on steam are just scaring me a lot.
    Maybe you should just make a poll between founders and see if the majority is fine with the wipe. And that might already solve the problem.



  • @Chipli It's too late now they should have wiped before early access started. Doing a wipe now would cause more harm than good.


  • FOUNDER: SETTLER

    On behalf of the guild BR, when I started playing I suffered much more than you guys with Holya ( VAN ) , in my epoch was the UFO and Terror destroyer , they tried to kill me always , and almost always killed me , I never came here Wype ask , I never cry , I think this new generation of players this very cool , you are playing a hardcore PVP game, then play more and cry less.



  • I have yet to die in PvP. Holya tried but failed ;)

    @Sativao Is that Bob Marley on your profile picture? :P


  • FOUNDER: SETTLER

    @Namus yess!


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    @Sativao said in Why no wipes, what we are doing instead:

    On behalf of the guild BR, when I started playing I suffered much more than you guys with Holya ( VAN ) , in my epoch was the UFO and Terror destroyer , they tried to kill me always , and almost always killed me , I never came here Wype ask , I never cry , I think this new generation of players this very cool , you are playing a hardcore PVP game, then play more and cry less.

    I am trying to bring to marketing perspective in order to attract more players. Please refer to comments on Steam and see what new players are complaining about. We can act tough and go around saying “Play More, Cry Less” but is there any good if we are just a bunch of tough guys in an empty realm? That is the question.



  • Nothing you can do without ruining your game will stop us.


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    Man no one is trying to stop you, we are trying to figure out ways of finding ways of attracting new players while you're doing whatever you do.



  • @Chipli Don't bother. I could go on and on as to why it wont help but cant be bothered.


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    @Prometheus will there be a visual representation on the map for astral guarded areas? Will there be a visual way to see the legal area? Will there be a visual way to see if a player is under protection besides attacking and getting a system message? The ghosting solution seems ok although unless its harder to implement I don't see why it wasn't made so ghosts just can't see players. I like the new player protection. You know my feeling on the criminal system. Master scrolls should be removed from the legal area. Bandit commander and arch mage drop them. You shouldn't be able to farm a master scroll while being protected.


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