Considerations about the upcoming PvE Server
I was doing some thinking tonight about the upcoming PvE server announced from devs.
I know most of our small community is here because they were looking for an old school PvP / Full Loot experience.
As I said in my introduction I played UO between 2000 and 2007 and I was playing mostly as "trammie" - thing that was seen "lame" from the old school community.
But I was enjoying my time because my focus was animal taming, treasure hunting, and trading valuable items and collectibles, running an own shop.
My concerns so far is that the PvE server will be pretty empty, since most members here are looking for more a PvP centric experience (things will change at Steam release but this is still distant).
(now please don't assault me - i am just throwing my ideas :P)
Why not keeping only 1 Server and have 2 "facets" like in UO? Virtually it's the same like having 2 Servers, but the playbase won't split.
From my point of view - this will bring benefits from both sides:
- Players who want a chilled experience will play on the PvE facet
- Players focused in the PvP can have their unrestricted experience
Now, the "main" complain of PvP oriented people is "the pvp facet will just become empty because everyone will become carebear". This is not necessarly true - in UO until things screwed up too much due excessive itemization and inflated economy (caused from bad decision from devs) - the system was working pretty well before the collapse.
Only the brave was able to get the most valuable items.
For example, skills scrolls were spawning only on the PvP facet (the so called champs spawns). And only there. It was always very risky to go there and try to bring back home such scolls. Same discussion about crafting - in PvP facet the resource spawn was almost DOUBLE, and some rares materials for mining were spawning just there.
Personally I think this was a good system to allow everyone to pick his own decision, if risk vs reward or just "be more grindy" to gain money and buy from people venturing in PvP facet the valuable items that they brought back.
That's all for now - as I said, maybe my vision is wrong or I didn't considered all elements..but wanted to share my toughs with you
Yea let's ruin linkrealms by doing what ruined UO. brilliant idea...
I just said don't assault me for that because I joined UO when everything was already so.
Instead of being satiric why you don't help me understanding why this concept won't work?
For ME UO was ruined by other actions, not the trammel/felucca face. But again, I wasn't there before, so I don't know how it felt before..
There are too many discussions on this on the internet for you to research for me to go into detail explaining it. It's called hardcore pvp server for a reason. You will be fine on the pve server with the other 5 crafters that play on it with you.
Yea let's ruin linkrealms by doing what ruined UO. brilliant idea...
Exactly my thoughts.
Why not just do like UO and have a portal that takes you to the evil copy of the mirror universe?
Maybe Mattel will make a mmo called barbie fun house and you can play that
sorry man... terrible idea. If you are going to make a PvE server at all thats one thing. But to mingle them? I wouldnt play
I just wanted to have a better understanding...
I knew it already it was not going to be an idea considered from the old school PvP community, and also not pushing to go in this direction..I was just asking because my UO experience was fine having both possibilities.
@Rolex I find you are a bit arrogant about this topic..you know I respect PvP players the same way of PvE players, as long as there are good vibes and respect. What I fear is the game turning into a Gank party, especially being F2P (at least Sub-Based games were keeping away angry kids). From the attitude you are showing, I'd say I am glad then the server will be completely separated..so haters can just hate on forums and not in-game. I've nothing against PvP and I was dedicating my time in UO 20% to PvP during champs spawns - this doesn't mean that you have to threat PvE players preferring another gaming experience in that way.
@Kerkyon To help you understand when uo was one facet only (felucca) it was a blast. You had pk guilds... anti pk guilds... people protected one another if a red came to attack you at the bone wall... If you looted a a dead person (that was blue) it was frowned upon etc etc... (my guild title was i loot blues and i remember this guy saying you know what I am not ressing you because of your title.. it was hilarious) anyways when trammel came around guess what happened? probably 80% of the population moved to trammel and the rest is history.. the game was never the same.
Sorry dude but it seems you are mostly a PvE player....The facets concept ruined UO as people already said.
Two separated servers is the way to go.
I am aware of this, and @Clavicus at least explained me some points (thanks).
My PvP experience in UO was kinda hard, because there was only "supreme" clans on PvP Facet camping 24/7 the champ spawns and any smaller guild or groups had just no chance. I am absolutely not promoting solo-playing - I really like group focused activities - I just fear that more "casual" players or focusing on other activities will be excluded on a full PvP environment if they don't join the "supreme" clans.
I am absolutely ok with 2 separated servers, and as I said I've nothing against a PvP Full Loot environment, as long as it doesn't turn into a gank feast for guilds who are focusing on other aspects of the game other than competitive PvP.
Trying to recreate the UO experience is antithetical to sanbox game play. In theory, a sandbox game play allows for anything to happen. The outcome of the old UO servers was just one possibility of what could have happened. When you creates rule to force people into playing like it was in the old days, that takes away the freedom of a sandbox.
Trying to create circumstance in which players have to hire body guards to go out into the world is not a sandbox. It's sociopaths trying to control other people's behavior.
Which brings us to the root of the problem. If you crave the PvP gankfest, you're a sociopath. In a nutshell, sociopaths try to force themselves on people who don't want them around. Unless you look into the psychology of a sociopath, and design your game around that, your game is going to have problems.
@Vengeance I feel pretty confused about your post. In the first part you are stating (correctly) that a pure sandbox should be a world without limitations.
Then in the second part you are saying that forcing players to hire body guards and such is not a sandbox element but a sociopaths behaviour.
I see it as interesting mechanics because it's promoting the group play (compared to most MMOs nowdays that allows solo-players to defeat almost everything alone except boss raids).
My concern in a Full PVP ruleset is the fact most PKs guilds will remove the possibilities of non-guilded or small guilds PvE / Crafters player oriented to play the game properly, ganking and looting all the resources they are gathering, treasures they are digging, or rushing the dungeons to exterminate the group of people farming there and robbing everything.
That's fine since it's a sandbox and this is most likely going to happen - but when they take "ownership" of all farming places (like the champ spawns in UO) this is resulting an excessive stressful experience for players less PvP oriented.
I dont think some of you played UO at all. The double facet thing never killed the game and pvp was tons of fun with it.
The game was killed when they started releasing samuri's and crap. And when they gave alchamist explosion potions. And started making blessed uber weapons.
The guys going to the non-pvp portal can go farm crap for you to buy to go pvp with and I like the OP's idea of bless scrolls and other worthy items only dropping in the pvp world.
@Kerkyon Good point. Guilds are already locking down the nooby bandit camp spawn west of town. So of course they will camp and lock down the best boss spawns. Its kinda fun fighting over the bandit camps though but i pretty much just stop playing when they zone camp the borders and zerg you.
Some people really would like to stay in the safe world and gain their skill ups before they mess with pvp. Especially when you have UFO guild just sitting outside the safe zone and insta-gibbing ANY nooby who steps out.
You think that is going to do well when the game is live? 20 guild members all standing right outside of ALL the first town entrances as insta-gibbing every single new player?
@dirtpoor About the UO-killer feature, I agree with you, but again, since I was not there Pre-Renaissance, I can't confirm that the trammel/felucca facet ruined the game or no. I liked the possibility to pick whatever I wanted, if playing safe or risk v reward.
The uber-weapons (artifacts) blessed was totally unfair for PvP players - what's the meaning of PvP if you can loot only craps instead of valuable items when killing
About your second post: right now (a few exception apart maybe the community is very friendly and helpful and loyal. My concerns about playing on a PvP server is exactly what you expressed - when games it will be released and being f2p, be assured there will be a lot of "sociopaths" who are going for this.
Best farming grounds will be permanently camped from larger guilds, where epic battles involving big strategies will take place. And this is inevitable and I am not saying this is bad. As true sandbox, people need to organize themselves and let the player-driven story run (pissed of about a prepotent guild always camping? gather a new guild and destroy them!). My concerns on playing on a PvP servers are the sociopaths and such zergling the new players and every dungeons (also low level ones) just to slaughter people for fun, or just stealing resources from any gatherer/crafter around. And this IS going to happen.
I totally agree "end game" content should be reserved for PRO and PvP enabled areas for the Risk vs Reward (do not like it? nobody force your to enter - just go grinding on other lower level dungeons or gather/craft to make money and BUY then on the market those items who PvPers are selling). This guarantee the possibility of choosing your playstyle and allow new/middle range players to enjoy the content before reaching the right training for PvP.
pvp was HUGE with trammel/felucca these people have no idea what they are talking about. Although this game is so small right now that it might divide the playerbase a bit too much. Maybe once it gets around 500 online then it will be time for Tram/Felucia type portal in game?
@dirtpoor Yea we played but we all quit when they ruined it with trammel. Just give it up guys you aren't going to convince anyone to ruin this game.
@Rolex what about stop thinking WE are your ENEMIES trying to RUIN the game?
I said for me it's perfectly fine to have two separated servers, what I was considering it was possible solutions to not create 2 servers at the moment that playerbase is still so small, and finding a functional solution where PvE and PvP lifestyle could live under the same roof.
But its seems you are deaf and just thinking we are here pretending devs make changes just for us.. this was never my intention, this was a suggestion and i just threw some ideas, so please stop now to behave in that way, if you have something informative to write go ahead otherwise flaming is bringing nowhere.