An argument in favor of murdering innocents



  • Safe zone PVP in its current form is broken.
    Disclaimer: I realize safe zone PVP is a bandaid fix, and is not intended to always exist. However, the system currently in place is worse than PVP simply being disabled, or alternatively a better system could be put in place by copy pasting other mechanics/changing values.

    I would hope to prove with my argument:

    1. Being a white in safe zone PVP is an absurdly huge advantage
    2. From a mechanical perspective anybody who attacks somebody within the safe zone is a criminal
    3. The safe zone PVP restrictions are not immersive, or thematic
    4. Safe zone PVP in its current form is bad for community

    Being a white in safe zone PVP is an absurdly huge advantage
    Firstly, there are the bugs:

    • A red player's spirits will not attack a flagged white player

    • Players can debuff/buff/heal without being flagged

    • Most AoEs don't do damage

    • One can still teleport in combat(sorta)

    • A white can unflag at any time they wish

    This alone is more than enough to skew any otherwise competitive fight so significantly in favor of the whites(aggressors) that they should never realistically lose. The biggest advantage, however, is the fact that a team of whites may flag themselves on a single red, but remain unflagged and unattackable by all others. Why, in a team based/social game, should it ever be impossible for me to help my team when a group of hostile players is attacking one of us? There is absolutely no reason for such a large unearned advantage to be given to whites, it being literally impossible for any red(s) to defend themselves in any similar situation.

    From a mechanical perspective anybody who attacks somebody within the safe zone should be a criminal
    Recently the criminal/assassin system was updated so that assassins are only punished for being red if they're also criminals(attacked first), making it seem very inconsistent that the opposite is true in the safe zone. If we're being realistic every single player who currently participates in Linkrealms as a whole has, and without punishment would participate in constant murder.

    BR consistently roamed in gank squads of 5-6, murdering everybody they could prior to the update, and when UFO was around. NWO did the same during the steam release. ROK seems to fight BR sporadically, and attacked(but sadly not gained assassin points from) attacking white VAN characters. Finally INC was the dominant PVP guild prior to VAN's take over. Everybody exploits the weak when they can; and the criminal system to a large extent has stopped the common player from doing that. Regardless of near every player being incredibly hostile, at least to somewhat old players. All of the above players are considered "innocent" by the game.

    However, one could argue that 1) a red player in the safe zone is ALWAYS weaker, 2) there is absolutely no risk for a white to attack, and 3) the white is inherently the aggressor.
    From a mechanical perspective in this instance the red can only be a victim, and the white can only be the victimizer.

    The safe zone PVP restrictions are not immersive, or thematic
    This argument is sorta obvious, I mean.. Leess pretend LR si real life, and VAN is some vicious clan of 6 guys who've somehow on an individual basis murdered up to ~800 people. Is that clan going to just passively watch is 6 angry peasants that together that could easily slaughter attack their leader? In reality are the peasants going to act more aggressively towards their bandit overlords when they're in town, or are they going to be begging them not to burn their shit and take their virgins. s'dumb.

    Safe zone PVP in its current form is bad for community
    Red players being discouraged from generally hanging out/socializing in the safe zone hurts the community. This would likely be less noticeable were the game currently more populated, but even once the game does become more populated presumably a majority of the better players will end up red, and removing positive interactions between new/veteran players is very obviously bad.

    Not every player killer is an asshole, not every commoner too afraid to become an assassin is helpful and kind. That li'l Mexican bleeding heart Myhal keeps giving new players tart potions/Argents/advice, and occasionally warns them to flee when I'm coming to murder them. Seriously, it gets annoying. Kapich to some degree does the same, except he's too much of a Jew to give people shit. Vetro can't shut up about our strategies and vaguely tells bads how to play just to prove he knows.

    On the other hand, I've received significant unwarranted abuse, disrespect and generally negative attitude from a large number of whites on the server, in addition to some very actively trying to scam unknowledgeable players in trade. It's not just me who's experienced this, a couple EX-NWO members claim to have received more help from me, and naught but negative experiences from their white guild. Probably didn't need to write two paragraphs about how individuals in different circumstances may or may not be poopy butt babies, but here we are. x:

    The fixes I see most favorably are:

    Proposal One

    • Flag any whites who attack a red as a 'hero' for 5 minutes

    • Anybody may attack somebody flagged as a hero, or criminal

    • An innocent attacking a hero flags them as a criminal, and will be assigned assassin points upon the hero's death

    • Enable the looting of corpses, and the loss of blessings inside Riverbank if the victim is an assassin/criminal/hero

    • Healing/Debuffing/Buffing a hero/assassin will flag the caster as a hero/criminal respectively

    • Obviously fixing the bugs related to spiritualism, and AoEs

    Proposal Two

    • Disallow assassins entering riverbank

    • Turn Ravenfeast into the red town until such a time as another ins introduced

    Proposal Three

    • Just disable PVP in Riverbank

    @Developers in its current state Riverbank PVP is legitimately awful, please fix it. On a side note the 'hero' solution has the alternate effect of disabling Riverbank/Ravenfeast as safe zones for whites exclusively if they attacked first. I'd like that change too.



  • We are aware that the current solution is not optimal, and we had already planned something close to your "hero" suggestion to improve it (and also to properly account for healing, buffing, etc). However, please realize that the purpose of the current system is just to allow assassins to "sneak" into a safe town to use the bank - not to engage in large-scale PvP. With this in mind, even the current system "does the job".



  • @Prometheus thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

    However, I'm very strongly of the opinion PVP should be disabled if your update isn't coming within a reasonably short period. I'm assuming it "doing the job" from your perspective is a thematic statement, but in practice, nothing about it feels stealthy.

    Everybody knows I'm there. I can even still talk in global. They just won't attack until there's a critical mass of others willing to attack, or rush in then exit combat when they're about to die.

    Linkrealms is a risk management game in terms of its PVP, and I strongly feel in any instance allowing one to attack another with literally no risk is poopy butt babies. The current system fails thematically and mechanically goes against the spirit of a PVP sandbox.


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