Linkrealms "Balancing"



  • Hello, i wanted to make a thread about some changes that happend in the game recently, so that the whole community learns about those and maybe help me with some things i have missed.
    The reason y i do this is because i see some ppl constantly argue about stuff here in the forums and i kinda understood that Devs are willing to make changes to the game, in order to shut those voices down.
    Many of those changes i beleive are influenced by a couple of users here and find that unfair, since i am a guy that doesnt speak much here, except casual comments and i want my voice o be heard.

    I m on Linkrealms for about 40 days now and havent been missed a single day since day one. I got the attendance trophy like some days ago and i feel that i am one of the players that are here to stay and help make this game feel more alive cause it damn worth it.

    There is this hype here on the forums about certain builds and stuff and i beleive that ppl are dragged to the wrong conclusions due to mass opinion here, which is often wrong. I ve seen many post about mages, balancing and stuff. I am here to point out changes that drastically affect mages PvP and now PvE capabilities also.

    So at previous patch we saw mages ripped out from PvP. I m checking the patch notes on 2 latest patches and i ll provide quotes here to support my case.

    @Prometheus (patch log 8.3)
    Most of the positive changes are target at the class now widely considered underpowered (and definitely underused at high levels): the melee warrior. The base DPS of weapons has been increased, and several melee Battle Tactics are now much more effective.

    All the Death Effects of Spiritualism spirits have been implemented, and some of the existing ones have been revamped.

    What happened in this update?

    1 - The base DPS of Severing/Mauling weapons has been increased by around 20%, while the base DPS of all crossbows has been increased by around 5-10%. For crossbows and Mauling weapons, the better DPS comes mostly from base damages being raised. For Severing weapons, it comes mostly from base speeds being raised. ( so melee/archer gets a hell of a buff)
    3 - Several Battle Tactics have been changed / made stronger, ( wont go into spesifics here you can check patch log) ( another hell of a buff for melee)
    11 - Cripple can now be re-applied on a target that is already crippled. (this is what i personally see as an insane buff. This means infinate cripple for melee, no escape for mage/archer)

    So we see here 3 HUGE buffs for melee class. On the same patch:

    7 - Blink now has a 8 seconds cooldown after being used. ( ok dont get me wrong here. i still beleive no cooldown was too OP but 8s make it kinda useless now)
    7 - It's no longer possible to use a pre-cast Blink spell when frozen, stunned or rooted. (this i feel is natural)
    and taddaaa
    6 - Cap to Spell Damage Increase has been correctly decreased from 40% to 20%. This was meant to be done long ago (as you could have understood from Wiki pages about Sorcery spells), but got left behind.

    The conclusion on that is:
    +20% dmg on mellee weapons, improved BT greatly, infinate cripple which means no escape for mage. And same time
    -20% dmg for mages and their ability to escape now gone.
    This was supposed to "balance" things but now invocation mages do 7-10s to a gera player, thus leaving invoc mages useless in non party PvP, and only there to AOE in PvE. Now i also see this hype to nefr the PvE capabilities too, but this will go later in the post.

    One last thing about patch 8.3 is this.
    12 - Murky Ooze now deals Slash Damage instead of Pure Damage. However, the debuff it applies to physical resistances is now stronger (20% at 100 conjuration) and can stack up to 60% with subsequent Murky Ooze casts. The same applies to the debuff to Poison resistance from Green Ooze.

    WTF? mages nerfed and then this in same patch?? I m like lolz. Lets make a green mage then. So i did :)

    Ok so we go at patch 8.4 (like 10 days after patch 8.3)
    Here we have:
    Debuff to poison resistance from Green Ooze raised from 20 to 30 (at 100 Conjuration). The cap is still 60

    and i m like WTF again this gets better!! Lets dive into the greeny build :)
    So what i did then was create a swordmage than can debuff with conjuration. Felt awesome... So i speak to Devs about some numbers missing from Wiki, in order to help me understand how to make that build work.

    At that point i was already curious y mage nerf and at the same point green mage buff?
    And then comes the 6-month anniversary patch. This was devastating! and was 10 days after 8.4 and onlly 20 days after 8.3. At that point greens seemed to be buffed in the background compared to all mages nerfed but then at aniversary patch, they announce store upgrades, events etc etc and at the bottom of the update we get this:

    OTHER MINOR CHANGES

    The following changes related to the new artifacts have been introduced:

    Green Ooze now lowers the target's Physical Resistances by 15% at 125 Conjuration instead of 20% at 100 Conjuration .
    Murky Ooze now lowers the target's Poison Resistance by 15% at 125 Conjuration instead of 30% at 100 Conjuration.
    The cap on the debuff of both Oozes is now 45% instead of 60%.
    Enhanced Murky Ooze and Enhanced Green Ooze are now available as random modifiers on staffs. They both make it so that the debuff applied by the spell is directly 45% at 125 Conjuration.

    This made me furious atm. Like 5-7 days before this patch i directly spoke to Dev team and we were discussing about Murky and Green Ooze and that they could be used effectively while wielding a sword. 5 days later the devs close this hole, and allow Conjuration and green mage build to be ONLY playable by mages wielding staffs since the new enhanced spells are staff only. This definatelly felt personal cause they cut me off from my build, while still buffing staff mages that can now debuff -45% with only 1hit, an ability they never had and while they introduce this as a nerf, in the end is a great buff.

    I immidiatelly contacted Dev tteam and complained about this, cause as i told em excactly, this kills my build and buffs staff greens in the same time. Their respone was "no, this is balancing and not killing any build".
    How can this be balance? i say. This clearly feels like favoritism.

    Also to conclude with my whole mage idea, at anniversary patch we also got a price raise to essences and didnt see anyone commenting on that. I get essences at 3g ea now instead of 2. Well this might not seem much, but in the end you need like 50-70 fireballs to drop down a boss in lava area maybe more. Since we need 2 essences for a fireball, we have an cost increase of it by 2g now so ea fireball costs 6g instead of 4g. Now that is 300-490 gold cost to kill that boss instead of the 200g-280g that was before. This is huge, espesially when hunting with single target spells. In the same time it would cost a mauler/sev 0g to kill the same mob, and an archer like 50g to do that with bolts.

    So here we see a huge nerf on mages PvE too. Where the hell are you guys going with that?

    To defend my case here, my main is PvE mage and i also have maxed archer, mauler, and severer, but i really enjoy playing sorcery over anything else cause gameplay is tense and much more fun if you are a mage, thats y i tied to implement mage on PvP too. Cause going melee is fk boring!

    So this post has 2 scales. One being the general mage nerf, and the other one is the tricky buff the quitely applied to staff green mage only. Also i know that there are no staffs with both enhanced Murky and Green, which kinda balanced the situation here, but still my request is:

    GIVE THOSE TO MAGIC WEAPONS TOO, else its just what i say it is. Favoritism over staff mages while killing all MA and Sword greens potential. And i know the would suck as builds, but they are fun and now killed.

    PS: Stop messing with PvE invocers cause its the only we can do atm. Also if spamming forum is what i need to do to have my opinion heard, well thats what i m gona do, cause you guys only listen to shut mouths.



  • cought cough
    earthquake 230 to 301 damage to to potentialy 256 enemyes (been realistc lets put here 20 ;D)

    cost less than 20g, potential loot 1000 (20 mobs with 50g) to 12800 (max 256 mobs), and we all know that for farming gold mages does not use single target spells, and of course to make a boss apear we need first to kill several groups of mobs

    if we consider the time it cost to kill mobs 1 by 1 , mage is by far the best money/time farmer of game.



  • @jymnils said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    cought cough
    earthquake 230 to 301 damage to to potentialy 256 enemyes (been realistc lets put here 20 ;D)

    cost less than 20g, potential loot 1000 (20 mobs with 50g) to 12800 (max 256 mobs), and we all know that for farming gold mages does not use single target spells, and of course to make a boss apear we need first to kill several groups of mobs

    if we consider the time it cost to kill mobs 1 by 1 , mage is by far the best money/time farmer of game.

    true,good facts )



  • @jymnils 256 enemies the game can't even handle spawning that many LOL.

    but yeah @Siltoruz welcome to the mage pvp nerf train, we were useful for 2 months now we're back at it again BOYY



  • @Myhal i know man, but its the area of the damage ;D thats why i said potentialy ;D



  • oozes and their stuff r good now, there are other useless spells that need buff or to be implemented :(
    magic weapons cant have enchanted spells but can have BT and normal attack damage (that staffs havent)



  • Fuck dis shit



  • Hi @Siltoruz. As I've already explained to you via PM, when it comes to choosing what combat skill to use on a mage:

    • Enhanced Spell modifiers are the thing that makes a Staff Fighting build unique.
    • Not being disarm-able and having empower+touch spells is what makes a Martial Arts build unique - like the one @Myhal uses in tournament.
    • Being able to deal melee damage and use the tactics you mentioned and that you deem so powerful is what makes a hybrid build unique, as @Priapo pointed out.

    That is the reason why weapons don't have, and won't have, Enhanced Spell modifiers, unless we drastically decide to revamp the system giving Battle Tactics to unarmed combat and to staffs - then it could be a possibility, but we haven't planned to do something like that so far.

    Also, as I've also explained to you via PM, an hybrid warrior/mage with Severing and Conjuration is going to become a very interesting build (and perhaps very popular) as soon as Howling Blade, Blazing Sword, Black Sword etc (already listed here) will be implemented. Those spells will allow you to summon magical swords in your hands, using Severing for hit/dodge and Conjuration for damage and tactics (instead of Battle Tactics). Once those are out, you won't even ask for Enhanced Oozes modifiers on weapons, because you will play with summoned swords, not with actual swords, and save 100 skill levels (the ones from BT) for something else. Then you'll have the damage-dealing Severer/Conjurer you dream of. In fact, that will be THE damage-dealing Conjurer, while a classic one will stay more of a support character. I'm sorry those spells are not implemented yet, we'll try to get them done as soon as possible.

    That being said, every day I keep hearing:

    1. Melee warriors complaining that archers are OP because range.
    2. Archers complaining that melee warriors are OP because more DPS and stronger tactics.
    3. Green mages complaining they are UP because not enough debuff -> not enough damage.
    4. Everyone else complaining that green mages are OP because too much debuff -> too much damage.

    It's genuinely hard to keep one's mind clear with so many voices saying everything and the opposite of everything. On a few things the community is quite unanimous tho, and they are:

    1. Invocation being great for PvE, but useless in PvP due to everyone playing with full 70 resistances at high levels.
    2. Warriors dealing mostly non-physical damage and dealing insane bursts of damage with Ignore Armor (and Weak Link), totally killing the purpose of heavy armors (like Steel Plate sets).
    3. Spell Defiance being totally useless because of the lack of magical CC.

    We will work on those points of consensus.



  • @Prometheus said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    1. Warriors dealing mostly non-physical damage and dealing insane bursts of damage with Ignore Armor (and Weak Link), totally killing the purpose of heavy armors (like Steel Plate sets).

    warriors AND archers too ;)



  • @Prometheus said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    Hi @Siltoruz. As I've already explained to you via PM, when it comes to choosing what combat skill to use on a mage:

    • Enhanced Spell modifiers are the thing that makes a Staff Fighting build unique.
    • Not being disarm-able and having empower+touch spells is what makes a Martial Arts build unique - like the one @Myhal uses in tournament.
    • Being able to deal melee damage and use the tactics you mentioned and that you deem so powerful is what makes a hybrid build unique, as @Priapo pointed out.

    That is the reason why weapons don't have, and won't have, Enhanced Spell modifiers, unless we drastically decide to revamp the system giving Battle Tactics to unarmed combat and to staffs - then it could be a possibility, but we haven't planned to do something like that so far.

    Also, as I've also explained to you via PM, an hybrid warrior/mage with Severing and Conjuration is going to become a very interesting build (and perhaps very popular) as soon as Howling Blade, Blazing Sword, Black Sword etc (already listed here) will be implemented. Those spells will allow you to summon magical swords in your hands, using Severing for hit/dodge and Conjuration for damage and tactics (instead of Battle Tactics). Once those are out, you won't even ask for Enhanced Oozes modifiers on weapons, because you will play with summoned swords, not with actual swords, and save 100 skill levels (the ones from BT) for something else. Then you'll have the damage-dealing Severer/Conjurer you dream of. In fact, that will be THE damage-dealing Conjurer, while a classic one will stay more of a support character. I'm sorry those spells are not implemented yet, we'll try to get them done as soon as possible.

    I understood that completely when you said it to me on PM. I was here to test my theory about tweaking the patches in order to keep spammers of spamming. Also i WON'T reroll my character due to that 3 spells you mentioned. Though i definatelly think that in order for the build to work we just put the 100 points from battle tactics to Martial arts cause if i am correct we create swords from thin air with this which means that our hands need to be free to apply those am i correct? Or will this replace/enhance the sword/staff/weapon we are already using in hands?

    1. Invocation being great for PvE, but useless in PvP due to everyone playing with full 70 resistances at high levels.
    2. Warriors dealing mostly non-physical damage and dealing insane bursts of damage with Ignore Armor (and Weak Link), totally killing the purpose of heavy armors (like Steel Plate sets).
    3. Spell Defiance being totally useless because of the lack of magical CC.

    We will work on those points of consensus.

    1. Ok in the whole server the only active Invocation users i see are Me, DarkMirraxus mage and El Scorpio. You should ask as about PvP and PvE. I agree we are better than every other class in PvE grinding, and the only reason on that is earthquake. What those warriors cant know because they have not played mage in end game is that quake does decent dmg to certain mobs with low resistances only (aka scourges like the way is say in first post, But it does laughable amount of dmg to mobs with physical resistances like Minotaurs where we do like 30/20/15/15/10s ) . Also the casting time is soooo long that it will be interupted by anything that shoots fireballs or magic, or even archers and melee without stoneskin. Adding to that the mana cost is insanely high that you can only do 1 earthquake with 0% mana reduction and wisdom 150. In order for this to even remotely work you need full mana reduction at 40% which means a lot of the proper gear and still do only 3-4 quakes and then meditate again. For all of you who doesnt know, a Minotaur needs usuaaly 5 earthquakes to die, which is 180 mana at 40% manareduction. Which means we do 4 earthquakes with 10 minos chasing us, and then have to meditate and do one more to kill them, and then meditate again to full mana. Thats at least 2min of meditation for one pack of minos. So its not sooooo OP as nobies see it from the outside. Its the only weapon we still have and works only on occassions. Plz leave it alone or i will revolt :p

    2. Ignore Armour is the best DPS hit atm ingame, but to be honest yo are the first one i see to mention this. I dont have a problem with that though, so much as i have with infinate cripple that was introduced in patch 8.3
      Before that i could keep a safe distance from melee so i could protect myself from insane burst dmg and approach when stamina was burned. Now with infinate cripple we cant take any distance from melee since we cant run anymore but only walk if playing against someone that knows what he s doing.

    3. I couldnt agree more on that, but i beleive this will be auto fixed when abjouration,illusion and the other spiritualism skill come to the game.

    Now @Prometheus i want to give you here the reason why invocation sucks excwpt the earthquake capability, which btw still hits allies too so its solo only, another reason y mages are sitting ducks when farming ( cause most effective way is quakes solo, in pt there is other approach).

    Ok invocation sucx cause of the inability in the game to buff (alteration)/debuff(conjuration) shock resistances
    . I was very thoughtfull about that when i saw it as a new player, but i thought that shock dmg is huge and thats the reason y this feature is missing. In the end i saw that thunderbold can 1hit naked guys, and in the same time do like 15 dmg with 70 shock resistances.

    I see a red not implemented spell at conjuration lvl 9 Mauve Ooze. I have high hopes that this is the spell that will allow us to debuff shock resistances. Is this correct?
    Also i see at alteration lvl 9 Thunderskin, which is definatelly the shock res buff.

    In game atm there is the ability to buff/debuff Physical res, poison res, fire res, ice res(buff only through glacial skin). This is definatelly the reason y invocation sux and i DO beleive that you ARE going to fix this by implementing those 2 spells. I dont know y anyone hasnt seen that or mentioned it untill now, but thats definatelly the case.

    SO plz... Prioritise the beff/debuff schock spells and also the 3 new conjuration spells you mentioned cause those 5 spells will fix both the issues here. Then we ll have ppl crying for a month or so again about how mages rip their asses with 3 hits, while on the same time 3hits is all we need to die too. Balance ;)



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  • @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    how mages rip their asses with 3 hits, while on the same time 3hits is all we need to die too. Balance

    no one needs to die on 3 hits thats not balance at all thats CS camping , need to be 5 to 7 at least if we want a "balanced" gameplay and PVP



  • @jymnils said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    how mages rip their asses with 3 hits, while on the same time 3hits is all we need to die too. Balance

    no one needs to die on 3 hits thats not balance at all thats CS camping , need to be 5 to 7 at least if we want a "balanced" gameplay and PVP

    Tha was kind of ironic @jymnils :p But you understand what i m saying here right?

    invocation sucx cause of the inability in the game to buff (alteration)/debuff(conjuration) shock resistances



  • @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    Tha was kind of ironic @jymnils But you understand what i m saying here right?

    invocation sucx cause of the inability in the game to buff (alteration)/debuff(conjuration) shock resistances

    you want to 1 hit people with you 100% shockburst staff and enchanced thunderbot?



  • @jymnils said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    Tha was kind of ironic @jymnils But you understand what i m saying here right?

    invocation sucx cause of the inability in the game to buff (alteration)/debuff(conjuration) shock resistances

    you want to 1 hit people with you 100% shockburst staff and enchanced thunderbot?

    Dont put words on my mouth you........ I am saying that there is embereskin(alteration)/scorch(conjuration), glacialskin (alteration)/ (idk if there is conj debuff atm), there is Stoneskin (alt)/ Murky Ooze (conj), Green Ooze(conj) to debuff poison res/ ( ithink no skill to buff it).. and there is a Thunderskin in wiki that definately is alteration spell to buff shock res. I m asking here if Mauve Ooze will be the shock res debuff, that will actually balance invocation in PvP.

    My statement was simple. Yours is just putting words in my mouth.



  • @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    I m asking here if Mauve Ooze will be the shock res debuff, that will actually balance invocation in PvP.

    No, Mauve Ooze is not a Shock Resistance debuff. As of today, there is no debuff for any magical resistance (Fire, Shock, Ice) - the one to Fire from Scorch is really minimal. Magic Vulnerability (Alteration) will do that, although it won't be as good of a debuff as the Oozes otherwise it would be too powerful (it also reduces Spell Defiance).



  • @Prometheus said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    I m asking here if Mauve Ooze will be the shock res debuff, that will actually balance invocation in PvP.

    As of today, there is no debuff for any magical resistance (Fire, Shock, Ice)

    Was there a patch today? Cause i havent seen any patch logs.. was scorch removed today?
    @Prometheus How will Magic Vulnerability work? like how much debuff can it give? Will it lower actuall resistances or just spell defeiance?

    Your responce about that will either trigger a smile or trigger my nerves :P :P So i m not commenting untill i have a response :)



  • @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    @Prometheus said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    @Siltoruz said in Linkrealms "Balancing":

    I m asking here if Mauve Ooze will be the shock res debuff, that will actually balance invocation in PvP.

    As of today, there is no debuff for any magical resistance (Fire, Shock, Ice)

    Was there a patch today? Cause i havent seen any patch logs.. was scorch removed today?
    @Prometheus How will Magic Vulnerability work? like how much debuff can it give? Will it lower actuall resistances or just spell defeiance?

    Your responce about that will either trigger a smile or trigger my nerves :P :P So i m not commenting untill i have a response :)

    No, Scorch was not removed, but the debuff is so little it's almost symbolic. We don't have the exact numbers for Magic Vulnerability yet, but it will lower both Spell Defiance and actual resistances.



  • @Prometheus said in Linkrealms "Balancing":
    We don't have the exact numbers for Magic Vulnerability yet, but it will lower both Spell Defiance and actual resistances.

    That is awesome info. Was actually wondering if actual resistances will be lowered too. Happy to see that implementation.


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