Population will never grow without instanced dungeons



  • For all the years I've been playing this game, I've never seen the player population rise much above 20 players. Even with only a dozen people playing, most of the dungeons are occupied.

    You can tell yourselves that PvP solves this problem, but the PvE server will never have more than 30 players as long people have to wait their turn to play.



  • yeah ! more dungeon with traps secret passages surprises levers... that's all everybody needs


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    @Roundwaters i have no problem with instanced dungeons on pve. cant do it on pvp tho for obvious reasons.


  • FOUNDER: PRINCE

    @Roundwaters said in Population will never grow without instanced dungeons:

    For all the years I've been playing this game, I've never seen the player population rise much above 20 players. Even with only a dozen people playing, most of the dungeons are occupied.

    You can tell yourselves that PvP solves this problem, but the PvE server will never have more than 30 players as long people have to wait their turn to play.

    I'd have to agree with pve should be like this. Can't tell you how many times someone raided the doungeon I was in even with a party or not. With the current way the doungeons are set up its still possible for anyone to steal it. I agree with @clavicus PvP doesn't need it but they could offer a 30 minute doungeon block in the cash shop for that server so no one could enter. Great money maker for the devs in my opinion. It doesn't have to be 30 minutes just throwing it out there



  • or we can scalate the loot and gvce to everybody on the party (more than 20% damage) to recive = amount of loot ;D
    this will encourage partys instead of solo players
    autoloot division so no ninjitsu ;D



  • lizzard maps works great!
    Need something more like that!



  • @jymnils said in Population will never grow without instanced dungeons:

    or we can scalate the loot and gvce to everybody on the party (more than 20% damage) to recive = amount of loot ;D
    this will encourage partys instead of solo players
    autoloot division so no ninjitsu ;D

    20% damage? what if a player of the party is a healer? poor healer X3



  • @hikari89 said in Population will never grow without instanced dungeons:

    20% damage? what if a player of the party is a healer? poor healer X3

    They'd have to make the healing staff available before we get healer. Right now it's just there to tease players.



  • A different idea might be to check the player with more than 50% damage and give loot rolled to the players of his/her team



  • I don't want a bunch of scrubs showing up in my dungeon runs right when I'm at the boss. I don't want to wait my turn to play. You can't force people to accept crappy mechanics. There's enough free games you there where you don't have to pay rent on your gear that people are going to move on, like they have been.



  • #PVE server problems in a PVP game.

    If this is an issue for you with ~20 reasonable/friendly people, imagine what it'd be like with VAN around. We've strongly considered making PVE characters for this reason on several occasions :P



  • You might as well. You've driven everyone away from the PvP server.



  • i think the main boss dungeon room should not be so accessible to everyone that arrive from outside.
    Dungeons should contain 5-6 rooms in the start to access the main room in the end hidden from the others . Maybe some hallways to connect them. maybe a dungeon (like tartaros) in more realms should be awesome.
    it should be difficult to access the final room, in this way player killers should fight the monsters of the dungeon too before to arrive in the final room ( realm ) of the final dungeon boss room. There should be a final room with a gate that make us go outside in one of the some realm sorrounding the main realm boss room in this manner pk outside should not wait only at one entrance alll of them if they are scouting. It would be fine after completing the dungeon and killling the final boss. This final boss should contain the key to go in the room with the gate (like spider key in spider dungeon), also filled with chests maybe . my delirium for today :-\



  • @Roundwaters @Dreworok @Clavicus @Aries @jymnils @hikari89 @Riga13 @Holya the problem that is being pointed out in this thread is real, and due to a major design mistake in world building that we've inherited. Most of the dungeons that have been implemented before we took over the development of Linkrealms follow a linear multi-stage structure with a final boss, which indeed only works in one of the following scenarios:

    • If such dungeons are instanced (against our design principles and game technology as well);
    • As a high-level PvP environment;
    • If the game is not instanced but has a ton of different dungeons of this kind (not a realistic task for a small team, and still not optimal).

    The world should have been designed with several locations where one could face mid/high-level creatures with good rewards in a more casual way - the Volcanic zone and the Lizzogoth jungle are successful examples of this concept, but sadly the only ones.

    The solution to this core issue, among several others, is part of the large update we've been mentioning for a while which we'll hopefully be able to disclose in a few weeks!



  • Lizgoth dungeon is BAAAAAD!

    Even assuming you get only the map pieces you need, with no useless duplicates, you have to run the level 1 dungeon 64 times to get enough pieces in order to reach level 6. In reality the number is 2 or 3 times that.



  • @Roundwaters said in Population will never grow without instanced dungeons:

    Lizgoth dungeon is BAAAAAD!

    Even assuming you get only the map pieces you need, with no useless duplicates, you have to run the level 1 dungeon 64 times to get enough pieces in order to reach level 6. In reality the number is 2 or 3 times that.

    yes, the level of grinding and lot drop rate need to improve to at least above 10% rate for artifacts not 0.01 like now ;D and 50 to 75 for reagents like maps, and of course we need to get rid of trash loot or at least make a recicle system that let cut/smelt that metal, leather and cloth items to usable raw items

    im looking fowards for that update Prom, continue the good work, if you need to remake it to make it right then go on, its better to do a small good than large fails.



  • I don't think the issue is having a shared game world. This is coming from my experience as a newbie, although I've played many games and genres.

    I think the main issue is the reward/xp system for skills and items. The most efficient way to progress is to macro starter abilities, which turns away new players as they realize people can have high levels through macroing instead of exploring, and there's nobody to party with. Through macroing, they earn no gameplay experience or sense of achievement, and it's a bland time-consuming non-communicative process, so at that point players would just choose to play something for real on Steam.

    Most games don't allow macros because they devalue skills and, consequently, items. I understand that this is a sandbox game, and players should have freedom in how they play, but if there is no worth in skills or items, the only reason they could have to play is through socialization and creativity, which this game lacks in the form of realms. They aren't freely available to new players or collaborative enough to compete with other sandbox games. The main incentives in this game of value to players are endgame gear, i.e. artifacts, and realms, meaning those are the only things you can really monetize around, since skills and other items are currently worthless.

    Most games have increased or shared loot/xp for dungeon runs done in parties, while this game has neither. There's little incentive for strangers to play with each other. The main issue is the risk/reward for dungeoning with strangers. In pvp, there's too much at risk with strangers. In pve, there's not enough reward for partying unless the dungeon is difficult to solo. Players are encouraged to solo because loot isn't increased nor shared.

    Also, the xp system isn't intuitive or attractive for newbies. The skill gain ticks seem to be chance based and in short bursts. You usually get a long string of no xp, followed by a short series of gains, and repeat. Newbies won't understand how their xp is acquired or progresses. In addition, the combat/magic xp system encourages players to spam actions, disregarding how difficult they are, which means progression to real combat and exploration in the game world is redundant. This is compared to other games where every action gives a flat amount of xp based on difficulty, and the amount to reach the next level is visible to the player.



  • @Richgar said in Population will never grow without instanced dungeons:

    I think the main issue is the reward/xp system for skills and items. The most efficient way to progress is to macro starter abilities, which turns away new players as they realize people can have high levels through macroing instead of exploring, and there's nobody to party with. Through macroing, they earn no gameplay experience or sense of achievement, and it's a bland time-consuming non-communicative process, so at that point players would just choose to play something for real on Steam.

    This is a bit of a different point from the one being discussed, but it's absolutely correct. Allowing players to macro skill points was a necessary decision due to the setup of the game and the way skills work. There are many good reasons a player would want to own several characters, but re-playing low-level content with a new character makes little sense, thus the possibility to macro.

    As mentioned above, we have a really huge announcement coming in a few weeks. A whole new concept for skill/stat progression is an important part of it - although only a part! Stay tuned!


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