The Past & Future of Linkrealms - Discussion Thread
This is the official thread to discuss the announcement The Future of Linkrealms.
You might be very enthusiastic or tremendously disappointed by what you have just read. Both reactions are OK.
What we ask you to is:
- To be civilized and constructive in the discussion;
- To remember Linkrealms won't be shut down, servers will stay online and the game will keep receiving minor content updates and bug fixes;
- To understand that the work we've put on this game since we took it over in 2015 has been enormous, made of days of endless working hours with little financial return;
- To understand that if we've gotten to take such a dramatic decision, it's because it was the only choice possible;
- To understand that your feedback can make the difference - again!
We're aware it's not easy at all to process all of this, but we trust your intelligence and understanding. Now let your voices be heard!
Will the current servers be shutting down during, or after the development of your new game? If so, would you be willing to give others the code/account data?
Will the current servers be shutting down during, or after the development of your new game? If so, would you be willing to give others the code/account data?[link text](link url)
Linkrealms servers won't be shut down, disregarding what happens to the Linkrealms 2 project. It's explicitly written in the "What is going to happen to Linkrealms?" point.
As for open sourcing the code, it would be of little use, as you can guess if you've read what I've said about the technology of Linkrealms. Plus, once more, official Linkrealms servers are not going to be shut down!
Account data are obviously never going to be given away to third parties.
So this linkrealms phoenix shard will become like the old mithyin shard in the future and another one will be opened with lr2?
Have u considered a fusion with shards online ?
u could create a server there with your rules , and also maybe a full pvp server where everyone can attack everywhere like it is in phoenix shard a feature that i appreciate a lot .
I am sorry that this game hasn't become more popular,
I was betting on that :_(
I expected another kind of announcement , really.
Is this a bad joke? Carnival is nearby....
@Prometheus I mean I have a trillion questions and will make a longer post potentially and def be there for twitch on Sunday but the way you say minor content updates and fixes it sounds like develop.ent is basically halting and this announcement is basically a death sentence to drawing in new players. On Nov 18 roadmap to spring u announced the upcoming months and in this announcement ur post says last couple months youve been get a new team for new game. So you already had the idea before then. Are we getting nothing from the latest roadmap? I know you have "releases" then minor content updates.. I'm curious as to what exactly we will be getting. I don't have anymore time to post atm so I'll stop there.
As i ve said before, in the previous discussion about the future of LinkRealms and the cash shop revamp a fresh approach should be taken. I think @Prometheus is honest enough to discuss those things, and clearly after that store revamp discussion the game would wear off eventually. They kinda openly told that it was not profitable anymore.
I think that Prom has a vison and wants to make this successfull, so given that this version was kinda dead already, a new game is what this team should do. If its done nicely it will have players. The team has the experience, knows what was done wrong here and knows what people want in the end better know. I think i ve said those elsewhere already.
I ll come back to this discussion later
Oh well, i will try to be the first with a more structured opinion:
1- Game concept is really good, it keep the Ultima Online essence with a fierce innovative direction, but your team is too small while the project is too big for you imho
2- I think it was clear by months that game was going on a dead binary, i understood this when u launched the artifact event, with a time schedule approximative and with a second part less structured....u were taking time for something bigger
3- A lot of people asked you a mac port, and the problem of the Old-Architecture was mentioned already in that moment, so the limitation of the development was already clear to me (why develop a code that need to be rewritten totally in future?)
4- For me, this game can be simply put down, useless go on with a no-future horizon for our characters, and i hope that all the things we bought can be partially refunded or used on the new game (i have a claim for an year..... and i bought even 2 character slots...that's unfair..), i hope players who spent time and money could have at least a priority access to the betas of the new game and some exceptional content in future always in link realms 2
5- DONT CALL THE GAME LINKREALMS 2 !! its a merchandise fail!!!! trust me, read the story of the Reverie Studios (http://reverieworld.com) and look how they moved up from their first game (dawn of fantasy), a failure game but with incredible ideas, to new projects repacking all the best of the first game into a new one of success (kingdom wars) that allowed them to gain money from a "free to play game", and creating even a new chapter (kingdom wars 2). They were exactly like you, great ideas, low experiences, technical limits.... They are franchises , our cousins lol
6- if u wish tips or a beta tester i'm always available, i tested about 15 games from Blizzard ones to private projects like the old dear "mangos project" with the emulation of WoW
See you soon, i'm sure
Totaly agree with all the text wall!
This game always needed better pvp dynamic, the arena was very late. I never did lost a expensive artifact/item to enemies hands, but i know Lots of people left this game for that reason. The best dynamic should have a game is not to Power control or power abuse, it is to fair and balance pvp battles and always having fun for everyone, not just for a little players with dark minds. I have been 20 years gaming, i started with 2D/no sound games like Tibia, this lasts its why i played this game. But i really enjoyed M.O.B.A. games like Dota>Heroes of Newerth>Heroes of the storm and actualy playing League of Legends they have just like 4-6 maps they didnt needed alot of map content to be fun.
Has Final i say that current game its awesome, just need more pvp dynamics and bossing dynamics too with big challenges like Dungeon not soloed, where you need healer, tanker, dps, stunner, etc. to kill the boss, more work team farming, instead to put poor rewards for just 1 player.
Thanks to the devs for all their hard work over the years. I'm sorry this game never reached it's full potential.
I still think if they would have take the time to develop what was already in the game instead of adding half finished systems one after another, things might have gone differently.
So after all these mind bending years your closing shop. Go figure honestly. Little pissed off knowing that none of our money that we funded into your pocket will ever come back to us in some way before you pack your little bag and leave with a pizza in your hand. Sadly if you do create another so called link realms at least give some people a chance to transfer there character and up to 10 items to this so called pizzeria you want to make your own. I could care less I'll just give away my character to any pve player I choose and you would never know. Sigh o well good luck with your little pizzaeria of a joke
Sweet! I'm glad for this change. The biggest flaw of this game is exactly what you stated; the potential of the game was limited in the beginning. No matter how great the vision and effort, you didn't have the tools to accomplish them.
I'm not sure what kind of feedback is useful. New software could open a lot of possibilities, and should allow you to implement complex game elements exactly how you want, and in ways you couldn't do before. Development of content should be much faster and easier and I believe you'll naturally discover better ways to implement things. I think you guys are on the right track, and should continue to pursue the old-school vision, incorporating whatever you liked from Linkrealms.
I feel you won't, but obligatory as it happens. Please do not get offtrack and create another unoriginal and dying mmorpg clone (Runescape 3, Eldevin, etc.) with a desperate p2w cash shop.
All the thriving games tend to have a F2P model where free players can get whatever paying players get minus cosmetics (LoL, TF2, Smite, Warframe, Dota 2, PoE), allowing them to have a massive playerbase and active community. They're all heavily focused on balance, and have a market system (chests, sales, daily rewards, etc.) that's based on cosmetics and retaining players' attention (Warframe is an exception. You can buy equipment, but it's a PvE game.) Every game with poor balance loses its community and dies.
There aren't many games with open world pvp. The games die if newbies don't have a good experience (bugs, griefing, too grindy).
In old runescape, they had a min-max level range to determine who can fight who.
Mortal Online is a great example. It has similar problems Linkrealms has. People run around nude killing newbies, or selling them armor/mounts at high prices and killing them to resell. P2P players can run around nude stealing from others at banks without risk. The skill system is similar. People have limited points to distribute in skills that they macro. It's a dying game because it can't retain players.
Wurm Online has open world pvp. There are three player-made kingdoms, although anyone can attack whoever they want. However, attacking players of your own kingdom is bad as there is a large enough playerbase to enforce rules. Also, the game is well balanced that a group of newbies could defeat a high level if they gang up. Linkrealms doesn't have this balance, but I feel you'll figure it out a method in the new game.
I think my main suggestion is that the community is the most important thing. And that comes from having a well-balanced game with many ways to retain players, meaning F2P should have access to similar diversity as P2P. That's hard to do though, because it means some time without profit where you get the ball rolling until you have a community. Then you'll need to pump out cosmetics often, and implement daily rewards, sales, holiday events, etc. to retain player attention.
Firstly, cheers for all the hard work (past, present and hopefully future) and a large post describing what has happened and what you see will happen in the future.
I am interested in this point for starters:
"Sure you will, including alpha access, depending on your current contribution to Linkrealms."
I have contributed real money into the game but I didn't buy any founders packs (I couldn't justify buying them as only realm bank interested me and not at that price). Will I still have access to the "alpha" or will it be only for those that have a founder pack, even if they have contributed less money to the game then me.
"Not yet! First of all, we really want to know what you think of what we have just told you, and what you think are the biggest flaws of Linkrealms in its current state. "
I have found the most annoying part of the game to be PvPed once boss is dead (while a great tactic that should be rewarded but not like current system). To go through the dungeon, doing everything you need to do to get to the boss/attract the boss, kill the boss and THEN they strike (those clever but sneaky little PvPers), it is beyond frustrating and have seen many forum posts complaining about the same issue. While it did happen to me and only made me more determined to get more powerful (and a tactic I will be using myself very soon when I turn into a cold-hearted killer). I do think once players have gotten to the boss stage they should have some type of protection from this type of PvP but just my opinion, afterall soon I will be doing exactly what I dislike but if its in the game, why not use it.
press F to pay respects
Which programming language will you choose?
I want to get a little more into detail here, now that I have some more time to kill. Firstly I need to state here that the last month, after the anniversary event launched and when we finished farming gear which gave me much time to freely roam the world of LR in search of PvP encounters, the game started to feel limited. Mostly because of the in existing population, but not only because of this. I came to a point where I thought to myself this games needs more players and it would be no1. Then I realized how much work and updating it would take to make the world possible to host many people. At the current state it can not hold more people than it already does cause it would create a chaotic state. Full of PKs, always busy dungeons/farming spots, no room for realms etc. Moreover it missed a lot of content that should be there, it missed end game content in general and most of all, it missed the little details that make people stick to games. Like small fluffy features that keep people busy. I won't lie and I ll tell you that the game felt impossible to pick up and be successful at its current state so I started looking into new ones. It was either a revamp or a game over. I loved the game but playing it felt like investing time to something with an expiration date being close. Especially after the post about cash shop revamp about a month ago.
The end game generally was: Go farm dungeon X for 1-2 months till you get your 1 lucky drop of the item you need. Most artifacts were garbage that no one used, with almost 0 trading value. All content was not challenging at all, but instead it was time consuming. I never avoided a dungeon run because it was hard to do. I did avoid em some nights cause I didn't have 2h to go kill ghosts and skeletons for a % chance of artifact drop in Blackwood. I never died in there. I was close to suicide though because of boredom.
No AH, felt like no economy. Yeah I could trade in forum market place, but only artifacts and major stuff, and only to/from serious gamers that were more involved in the game as the average player. As a new player I had no way to buy early random gear and no way to sell. No way to support a crafting gameplay, leading to combat being the only way to improve.
@Prometheus I m sure he knows all these. I m not sure if I will help by continuing to comment on missing features. I like it very much that I see a positive way of thinking by him even on the verge of destruction Also, personally I will give you respect for your efforts, your hard work, for your patience in here, for your ability to aknowledge mistakes and defeat and mostly for your determination to make your dream come true and create a masterpiece. (I remember many times coming here to joke and say some things to pass my time. From his perspective I made his job harder, but he was always responsive and polite even to the most hilariously stupid comments. Thank you and plz accept my apologies if I have given you a hard time some dayz.)
To sum it up until now. The game was a really good idea, implemented in a VERY sloppy way. It was there to fill the hole in full loot open world games and it was actually the only one that did it in such a charming way, that even younger people liked. It was old, from graphics to mechanics, and it was very limited. Nothing so innovative that would draw new people in, or that would keep experienced gamers in. Combat was..meh.. Not bad, but a bit saltless. Balance was not there ever... Hehehe so yeah it was an awesome idea but wrongly done. It seemed like Prometheus was trying to climb mount Everest naked. He had to fight all those issues, but never to improve than mostly to stabilize the situation. Now that I know the details, it seems it was because of the sloppy game engine. So please save yourself the time, and devote it to something that can be great as your vision is. If you ask me, you took the right decision.
Now while I rest assured in my chair making this post, I am a completely f2p gamer. I had plans to spend money, and I wasn't against it. I just didn't happen until now. This gives me the freedom not to be furious with the decision. On the other hand, it is very important to ensure that these people can get their moneys worth of stuff in the new game. I won't discuss what and how, but definitely don't make the mistake not to do it, cause else the first review for your next game will be negative feedback and I would support it. I trust you, I m just saying cause its better to be open before something bad happens
Since you will start a new game, my advice is to at last forget UO and leave it out of the marketing plan. UO was something else. Coming here expecting Ultima features, it wasn't hard to realize that LR had not even 50% of that game. Moreover you make people compare the game to one that launched 20 years ago, and to be honest you d loose in that comparison. 18 years old people never heard of ultima. They play something different now. UO is unplayable with today's gaming standards. Keep the good part of it and actually improve it with fresh features/graphics/game mechanics.
- Make the new game biiiiig! Don't just go make another LR. Bring fresh ideas in the game and put the goal much further than what LR was. Add fluff.Of course add features that are already offered by competition and make some good ones yourself. Make a game that people will look with awe. ( I ll talk about Chronicles of Elyria again. They designing an engine called Soulbound Engine, that will procced the story with events. This means that the world is not static, and that the story evolves around community decisions. The engine will also keep track of all player activities and will be able to chose which players feel important to the story progression so it will give away talents like sorcery, shapeshifting etc to those so they can help the story go forward. This is aweesooome. Just an example.) Now grinding idk. I be done it for 15 years now. My luck is bad. Bosses drop crap. Omg omg omg.
- Realms was fun! Now go truly open world! They created frustration, made PvP hard, it broke immersion. I know it had to do with game technology but now that this is not an issue open world is much more charming than a connected zone one.
- Really really really work on PK/ganking. This was the feature that brought me in. I love it. On the same time it is one of the main reasons other people leave. Yeah griefing is bad, griefers are worse. I know how those games work and I know where I got into, but some others can't cope with it. Constantly loosing by 1 hit make people go to WOW. Just don't do it with mechanics that limit PK. Do it with mechanics that help others protect from PKs. I have a suggestion thread where I get more into detail. I ll link when I access my desktop. (Edit: I will say here something very important about the games failure. You guys should not allow a couple of players to control your game. It might not be the biggest flaw in LR but definatelly was in top #3. I m talking about VAN domination. Now that we are being honest, even if I was a part in this alliance even for a little while, since I never took part in the big fights, I feel that you @Developers allowed one guild to win you, inside your own game. This was the biggest flaw. You know situation got out of hand fast, but you did not stop it. You can't just leave 99% of the population unhappy just because "the game allows you to do it" mentality. I know I have used this excuse too to be a badass but it was an excuse. If I find 100$ dollars on the street I will take em. That's what Holya and his gang did here. Everyone blaims him and us ( I will use us but I admit that I was just an ally that didn't help em much to dominate, since they already did when I joined), but the truth is that the fault was not on us, but to the passive stance from the Dev team. When a situation like this arouses, strict actions must be taken to undo the problem. VAN the last 2 months was 1 person with 2 allies, one of which was myself. Maybe 1-2 scouts too. Thats it. We could still be anywhere on the map within 1 minute combining voice chat and realm domination. Give those 3 full artifact gear and you have your game taken over. There were times that I couldn't believe the passiveness of the team against that. Sorry that I name people here, but clearly i m not saying that VAN was wrong. Holya just wanted to be accepted as #1 and he actually was. I mean i saw him fight 3v1 against Alucard, Zephyr and another guy, think was Falck. The guy was sitting there trying to block himself in the bank with them with crystal wall, and he fought 3v1 like he was fighting against Darklings!! I m saying that they won the game from you and if you had stopped this, we might not be doing this conversation now. So one piece of my advice is to never again allow to one player/party/guild to be soooo far ahead in the new game. Full loot PvP is a big deal and this is what usually kills em. No matter how good a game is, it will go empty if its Gods against peasants)
- Time is running out so I'll right this last part and come back later. @Prometheus you know I m willing to support this. I be send you a PM a few months ago. I m still up for it. Like @Meziljin said I m willing to participate in any testing phase and even before that in production. I haven't paid for anything here, so probably I won't be eligible for freebies or alpha access, but I know I d pass the exp test and that I can help with that phase. Try to send a PM on that. I want to be involved at least at testing phase, so tell me what I have to do.
PS: while reading that post I realized that I haven't covered even 50% of my thoughts. Also I really support all of @Meziljin post (edit: @Denluen has a point below if you can make the sentences out of this list of words Put some dots man! I didnt comment on those, because i told you i had seen this coming some time ago and had accepted the idea)
This all feels like a sham if you're going to give up on the game you should release the files to someone who might enjoy playing with them but anyway back to the sham part all these people just joined from steam and paid you uber amounts of money in hopes that you are going to build this game into the future but now it seems my money and many others has been wasted In doing this you have actually opened yourselves up to a lawsuit you cannot present the product such as you do on steam the video had all of these promises that never existed at least when I joined but I'm like there is still some promise here let's invest our time and some money to see where it goes then the frag artifacts drop broken.. but at least it was a update and now we have all patiently waited until the end of the month for you to tell us that you are going to instead build linkrealms two that's great and all but tell me what about what I paid will I get a refund seeing as I'm sure I'll never get some of the stuff that I paid for? Like the development phone call the entering the realm announcement , test server I feel kind of ripped off.... will my stuff transfer to the new game? Obviously there won't be any more updates to what we have so what is your incentive to keep us around? Also I'm guessing the program language is c++ you guys seem little young for that I worked for bio ware on never winter why not try reaching out to your customers for help on this? Instead of giving up I know a lot of this seems like rambling but you just took everything I've done in this game so far and made it amount to 0 I will say I may still play but you won't get anymore of my real money and expect a letter in the mail about what I am owed and have yet to receive. Also you may aswell remove the game from steam the reviews have blasted you so hard that I doubt you will get more players.
I still can't help but feel that if were to redo all the artifacts and items, and could put some more NPCs and Mobs into the world, I could make this game playable. No major recoding, simply change a few tables around. Honestly, this is what most players have been waiting years for.
Dear all people quitting. If you are that serious, give everything to Satan or Black ingame. Thx!
@God I'm still enjoying the game, I popped my boss cherry a little over a week ago!@#!
you can just give the game to other hands! No need to close it! I believe its possible to find someone with enough enthusiasm to keep game moving.